[Operators] a radar site?

[Peter Saint-Andre]

Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems that
we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

[David Banes]

I'll add my name to the list of volunteers to setup the site, would
use Joomla! and nicely modified template, happy to host it as well.

David.

On 05/11/2008, at 10:03 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems that
> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Saint-Andre
> https://stpeter.im/
>


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[Mickaël Rémond]

Hello,

Le 5 nov. 08 Ã* 00:03, Peter Saint-Andre a écrit :
> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems that
> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?


We (at ProcessOne) are running IMtrends.com and this is the same
intended goal.

--
Mickaël Rémond
http://www.process-one.net/

[Peter Saint-Andre]

Mickaël Rémond wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Le 5 nov. 08 Ã* 00:03, Peter Saint-Andre a écrit :
>> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems that
>> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
>> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
>> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?
>
> We (at ProcessOne) are running IMtrends.com and this is the same
> intended goal.

Right, but that might be *perceived* as something like Sendmail (the
company) running mailradar.com. And sometimes perceptions matter. :)

/psa

[Florian Jensen]

well, I might help out with that.

Greets,

Florian

On 05 Nov 2008, at 16:13, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

> Mickaël Rémond wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Le 5 nov. 08 à 00:03, Peter Saint-Andre a écrit :
>>> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems
>>> that
>>> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
>>> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
>>> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?
>>
>> We (at ProcessOne) are running IMtrends.com and this is the same
>> intended goal.
>
> Right, but that might be *perceived* as something like Sendmail (the
> company) running mailradar.com. And sometimes perceptions matter. :)
>
> /psa

[Jesse Thompson]

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems that
> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?

Those external-probe sites can be misleading. They need to be combined
with analytical studies to be effective.

Sure, Sendmail is the #1 MTA installed on servers because it's installed
on every *nix machine and usually enabled by default. Even if some of
these servers are hosting mail accounts, it might only be hosting one or
two accounts. Maybe it means that Sendmail is the best MTA for small
deployments, but I usually hear of 2 or 3 different MTAs that are
considered superior to Sendmail for both small and large deployments.

A very large ESP that hosts thousands, or millions, of accounts will
only be counted a few times by mailradar because the actual servers are
very large, hosting lots of users, and hidden behind load balancers. We
host 85,000 active accounts, but mailradar will only count us once,
maybe 4 times depending on how they interpret our MX records. That's
greatly overshadowed by the hundreds of linux machines running under our
faculty/staff desks, which happen to also be running Sendmail.

It is essentially impossible to get a server/user/software ratio by
doing external probes. An alternative way to get the information is to
do surveys. Even surveys are not completely accurate since people can
lie up or down depending on their motivations.

A telling comparison:
Compare the results of this survey-based study with mailradar's results.
http://blogs.sun.com/jhawk/entry/ferris_newsletter_sun_email_1

Jesse

--
Jesse Thompson
Division of Information Technology, University of Wisconsin-Madison
Email/IM: jesse.thompson (AT) doit (DOT) wisc.edu

[David Banes]

Actually, Axigen the secure mail server company run MailRadar :)

I don't think it's a problem who runs it as long as it's a genuine
resource for all.

David.

On 06/11/2008, at 3:13 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

> Mickaël Rémond wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Le 5 nov. 08 à 00:03, Peter Saint-Andre a écrit :
>>> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems
>>> that
>>> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
>>> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
>>> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?
>>
>> We (at ProcessOne) are running IMtrends.com and this is the same
>> intended goal.
>
> Right, but that might be *perceived* as something like Sendmail (the
> company) running mailradar.com. And sometimes perceptions matter. :)
>
> /psa

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[Mickaël Rémond]

That's my opinion too.

Today the web is a place for debate and the idea is also to run debate
and discussion. People can comments on their own blogs, etc
We are open and transparent after all :)

--
Mickael Remond
http://www.process-one.net/



Le 5 nov. 08 Ã* 22:23, David Banes <david (AT) banes (DOT) org> a écrit :

> Actually, Axigen the secure mail server company run MailRadar :)
>
> I don't think it's a problem who runs it as long as it's a genuine
> resource for all.
>
> David.
>
> On 06/11/2008, at 3:13 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>
>> Mickaël Rémond wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Le 5 nov. 08 Ã* 00:03, Peter Saint-Andre a écrit :
>>>> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems
>>>> that
>>>> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
>>>> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we
>>>> could
>>>> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?
>>>
>>> We (at ProcessOne) are running IMtrends.com and this is the same
>>> intended goal.
>>
>> Right, but that might be *perceived* as something like Sendmail (the
>> company) running mailradar.com. And sometimes perceptions matter. :)
>>
>> /psa
>
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[Pedro Melo]

Hi,

On Nov 4, 2008, at 11:03 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

> Someone pointed me today to http://www.mailradar.com/ -- it seems that
> we could build something similar for xmpp deployment, if we had a
> critical mass of people who want to help with that. Perhaps we could
> re-use xmpp.net for that purpose. Anyone interested?

I would like to do this.

I can have a server running that would probe registered domains, and
keep track of uptime, feature availability, and other metrics people
find useful.

The raw data would be available under the terms the XSF decides.

The code would be open sourced, of course.

If nobody objects, I can start this now.

Best regards,
--
Pedro Melo
Blog: http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/
XMPP ID: melo (AT) simplicidade (DOT) org
Use XMPP!

[Badlop]

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Pedro Melo <melo (AT) simplicidade (DOT) org> wrote:
> I can have a server running that would probe registered domains, and keep
> track of uptime, feature availability, and other metrics people find useful.
>
> The raw data would be available under the terms the XSF decides.
>
> The code would be open sourced, of course.

FYI, two more related projects:

Some years ago there was a site with such information:
http://public.jabbernet.dk/
But no longer available.

There's also this service:
http://www.jabberes.org/servers/
Source code is available, GPL2.
A Python bot asks data and generates the HTML page.
Quoting the readme file:
> It isn't a serious project, but an project to experiment and learn.
> But it works, (al least it seems to work ;) ) and some people like it.


---

[Mickaël Rémond]

Hello,

Le 6 nov. 08 Ã* 13:17, Pedro Melo a écrit :

> I would like to do this.
>
> I can have a server running that would probe registered domains, and
> keep track of uptime, feature availability, and other metrics people
> find useful.
>
> The raw data would be available under the terms the XSF decides.
>
> The code would be open sourced, of course.
>
> If nobody objects, I can start this now.


I see a problem in making available the data. It is really good for
our good old friends the spammers.

--
Mickaël Rémond
http://www.process-one.net/

[Pedro Melo]

On Nov 6, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Mickaël Rémond wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Le 6 nov. 08 à 13:17, Pedro Melo a écrit :
>
>> I would like to do this.
>>
>> I can have a server running that would probe registered domains,
>> and keep track of uptime, feature availability, and other metrics
>> people find useful.
>>
>> The raw data would be available under the terms the XSF decides.
>>
>> The code would be open sourced, of course.
>>
>> If nobody objects, I can start this now.
>
>
> I see a problem in making available the data. It is really good for
> our good old friends the spammers.

I agree.

I just think that eventually the XSF might get request for access to
the raw data to run some extra analysis.

Best regards,
--
Pedro Melo
Blog: http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/
XMPP ID: melo (AT) simplicidade (DOT) org
Use XMPP!

[Pedro Melo]

Hi,

On Nov 6, 2008, at 3:24 PM, Badlop wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Pedro Melo <melo (AT) simplicidade (DOT) org>
> wrote:
>> I can have a server running that would probe registered domains,
>> and keep
>> track of uptime, feature availability, and other metrics people
>> find useful.
>>
>> The raw data would be available under the terms the XSF decides.
>>
>> The code would be open sourced, of course.
>
> FYI, two more related projects:
>
> Some years ago there was a site with such information:
> http://public.jabbernet.dk/
> But no longer available.
>
> There's also this service:
> http://www.jabberes.org/servers/
> Source code is available, GPL2.
> A Python bot asks data and generates the HTML page.
> Quoting the readme file:
>> It isn't a serious project, but an project to experiment and learn.
>> But it works, (al least it seems to work ;) ) and some people like
>> it.

Thanks for the pointers.

Best regards,
--
Pedro Melo
Blog: http://www.simplicidade.org/notes/
XMPP ID: melo (AT) simplicidade (DOT) org
Use XMPP!

[Sean Dilda]

Badlop wrote:
>
> There's also this service:
> http://www.jabberes.org/servers/
> Source code is available, GPL2.
> A Python bot asks data and generates the HTML page.


Its interesting that it doesn't include information on adding a server
to the list.

[Nicolas Vérité]

> I see a problem in making available the data. It is really good for our good
> old friends the spammers.

The earlier we get spammers, the more robust we'll be?
--
Nicolas Vérité (Nÿco) mailto:nicolas.verite (AT) gmail (DOT) com
Jabber ID : xmpp:nyco (AT) jabber (DOT) fr
http://linuxfr.org/ - http://fr.wikipedia.org/ -
http://www.jabberfr.org/ - http://qsos.org/

[naw]

El Jueves 06 Noviembre 2008, Sean Dilda escribió:
> Badlop wrote:
> > There's also this service:
> > http://www.jabberes.org/servers/
> > Source code is available, GPL2.
> > A Python bot asks data and generates the HTML page.
>
> Its interesting that it doesn't include information on adding a server
> to the list.

Hi, I'm the author.

Actually the idea is to fetch the servers from
http://www.jabber.org/basicservers.xml but that list is very small, so I use
the a old jabber.org list that I had downloades before the website redesign.

Some people also contacted me to add their servers.