[jdev] jabber localization project?

[Peter Saint-Andre]

Safa SofuoÄŸlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:

1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
3. Moods (XEP-0107)
4. Activities (XEP-0108)
5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
6. And many more!

Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/



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[Sander Devrieze]

2008/6/13 Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im>:
> Safa Sofuoðlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
>
> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
> 6. And many more!
>
> Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
> project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
> happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.

I already started with a page for Dutch ages ago:
http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Woordenlijst
Feel free to steal it.

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 06/13/2008 11:54 AM, Sander Devrieze wrote:
> 2008/6/13 Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im>:
>> Safa Sofuo�lu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
>> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
>> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
>>
>> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
>> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
>> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
>> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
>> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
>> 6. And many more!
>>
>> Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
>> project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
>> happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.
>
> I already started with a page for Dutch ages ago:
> http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Woordenlijst
> Feel free to steal it.

Thanks!

Something machine-readable would be good. But if enough people are
interested, we can figure out the format.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/



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[Yann Leboulanger]

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Safa SofuoÄŸlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
>
> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
> 6. And many more!
>
> Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
> project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
> happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.
>
> Peter

user mood and user activity words are in Gajim's translation file. So
for next release we'll ask our dear translators to translate them. As we
have many language, we'll get many translations of those files.

--
Yann
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 06/13/2008 12:57 PM, Yann Leboulanger wrote:
> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> Safa SofuoÄŸlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
>> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
>> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
>>
>> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
>> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
>> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
>> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
>> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
>> 6. And many more!
>>
>> Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
>> project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
>> happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.
>>
>> Peter
>
> user mood and user activity words are in Gajim's translation file. So
> for next release we'll ask our dear translators to translate them. As we
> have many language, we'll get many translations of those files.

Super.

The question is: would it be helpful for multiple clients to use the
same translation file(s)?

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/



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[Yann Leboulanger]

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> The question is: would it be helpful for multiple clients to use the
> same translation file(s)?
>
> Peter

That could prevent some miss-understanding between people who don't have
the same client.
--
Yann
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[Andreas Monitzer]

On Jun 13, 2008, at 21:02, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:

> The question is: would it be helpful for multiple clients to use the
> same translation file(s)?

Maybe not the exact same files, but the same translations would be
great!

Semi-related: All localizable clients should implement this one, too:
http://trac.adiumx.com/ticket/9254

That's pretty high on my todo list for Adium.

andy
(Adium Project)

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[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 06/13/2008 1:07 PM, Yann Leboulanger wrote:
> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> The question is: would it be helpful for multiple clients to use the
>> same translation file(s)?
>>
>> Peter
>
> That could prevent some miss-understanding between people who don't have
> the same client.

Agreed.

I may get serious about this next week, in which case I'll post to the
list about it.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/


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[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 06/13/2008 1:14 PM, Andreas Monitzer wrote:
> On Jun 13, 2008, at 21:02, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>
>> The question is: would it be helpful for multiple clients to use the
>> same translation file(s)?
>
> Maybe not the exact same files, but the same translations would be
> great!

Yes, exactly. We'd provide an XML file and you could use XSLT to
translate that into your native file format. Or something. :)

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/


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[Sander Devrieze]

2008/6/13 Yann Leboulanger <asterix (AT) lagaule (DOT) org>:
> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> Safa Sofuoðlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
>> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
>> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
>>
>> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
>> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
>> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
>> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
>> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
>> 6. And many more!
>>
>> Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
>> project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
>> happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.
>>
>> Peter
>
> user mood and user activity words are in Gajim's translation file. So
> for next release we'll ask our dear translators to translate them. As we
> have many language, we'll get many translations of those files.

Around line 1190 in the following files you can find the Mood related
translations that are available for Coccinella (not all languages are
up to date; I only included those that have translations for this):

Swedish: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/sv.msg?revision=1.148&view=markup
German: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/de..msg?revision=1.109&view=markup
Czech: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/cs.msg?revision=1.9&view=markup
Spanish: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/es.msg?revision=1.106&view=markup
Italian: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/it.msg?revision=1.50&view=markup
Korean: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/ko..msg?revision=1.4&view=markup
Dutch: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/nl.msg?revision=1.177&view=markup
Polish: http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/pl..msg?revision=1.80&view=markup

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Lastwebpage]

my two cents, I think a general standardizes translation file will not work,
here are some reasons why it not work for Miranda:

a)Miranda have ONE translation file without a directly connection between
translation<=>GUI Control. The parser for the translation search for the first hit in the language file and display ALL controls with the same translated text.

a 1)Miranda is a Multimessenger. Some words are used by other protocols or addons and have sometimes a different meaning.

a 2) e.g. [Back Color] the translation would be "Hintergrundfarbe". But, oooohhhh, the text in the dialog is "Hintergru", because too few space for the translation. ( We use "Hgrd.farbe" )

b)The parser, or however you name this thing, who read the file and display the translation, it's not easy to change something in it, because there are tons of addons which use the function from the old parser.

==================
A general standardizes translation file would be nice for words like "Service Discovery", the human translator can take a look in this list and use it for his own translation.
But some kind of automation on the client site? I guess this will not work for a lot of clients.

Peter

[Sander Devrieze]

2008/6/14 JabberForum <list-jdev (AT) jabberforum (DOT) org>:
>
> my two cents, I think a general standardizes translation file will not
> work,
> here are some reasons why it not work for Miranda:

I think you misunderstood the idea. The idea is to create a list to
guide translators. So, not something that is automatically downloaded
or whatever.

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Lastwebpage]

The postings from Peter Saint-Andre goes in this direction, or not?

Peter

[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 06/14/2008 6:08 AM, JabberForum wrote:
> The postings from Peter Saint-Andre goes in this direction, or not?

I think they go in both directions, no?

Or does JabberForum not like my digital signature?

Peter

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https://stpeter.im/


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[Peter Saint-Andre]

On 06/14/2008 4:01 AM, Sander Devrieze wrote:
> 2008/6/14 JabberForum <list-jdev (AT) jabberforum (DOT) org>:
>> my two cents, I think a general standardizes translation file will not
>> work,
>> here are some reasons why it not work for Miranda:
>
> I think you misunderstood the idea. The idea is to create a list to
> guide translators. So, not something that is automatically downloaded
> or whatever.

Right, projects could use it however they please.

Peter

--
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https://stpeter.im/


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[Zenon Kuder jr.]

Hello, I'm sorry for late reply for likely dead thread, but I think this is
intersting issue that should be handled as soon as possible.

Dne Friday 13 of June 2008 21:02:25 Peter Saint-Andre napsal(a):
> On 06/13/2008 12:57 PM, Yann Leboulanger wrote:
> > Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> >> Safa SofuoÄŸlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
> >> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
> >> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
> >>
> >> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
> >> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
> >> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
> >> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
> >> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
> >> 6. And many more!

Particularly the moods and activites should be
a) consistent among different clients with same language
b) consistent among different languages.
to avoid social problems :-).

(a) is relatively easy to achieve as long as the translator teams collaborate.
But for (b) it's necessary to create some semantic descriptions to some of the
words, which can possibly have multiple meanings.

I've created this page some time ago
http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Mood_translation but I somehow lost interest
(partly because I didn't make other people interested ;-) ). The page is a
basic draft intended to create attention.

Don't know if there were some discussions about it anywhere else.

Regards
Zenon Kuder jr.

> >>
> >> Perhaps it would help client developers to create a jabber localization
> >> project ("jabber-babel?") to make this task easier for everyone? I'd be
> >> happy to start such a project on Google Code or wherever.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >
> > user mood and user activity words are in Gajim's translation file. So
> > for next release we'll ask our dear translators to translate them. As we
> > have many language, we'll get many translations of those files.
>
> Super.
>
> The question is: would it be helpful for multiple clients to use the
> same translation file(s)?
>
> Peter

--
Stop Skype Plague
XMPP Jabber ID: zenek (AT) jabbim (DOT) cz
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Zenon Kuder jr. wrote:
> Hello, I'm sorry for late reply for likely dead thread, but I think this is
> intersting issue that should be handled as soon as possible.
>
> Dne Friday 13 of June 2008 21:02:25 Peter Saint-Andre napsal(a):
>> On 06/13/2008 12:57 PM, Yann Leboulanger wrote:
>>> Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>>> Safa SofuoÄŸlu (one of our GSoC students) mentioned to me that XMPP
>>>> clients need to provide localized versions of many protocol terms, but
>>>> that there is no consistency for those terms. Examples include:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Concepts like "file transfer" and even "instant messaging"
>>>> 2. Basic presence states like "away" and "dnd"
>>>> 3. Moods (XEP-0107)
>>>> 4. Activities (XEP-0108)
>>>> 5. Chat states (XEP-0085)
>>>> 6. And many more!
>
> Particularly the moods and activites should be
> a) consistent among different clients with same language
> b) consistent among different languages.
> to avoid social problems :-).
>
> (a) is relatively easy to achieve as long as the translator teams collaborate.
> But for (b) it's necessary to create some semantic descriptions to some of the
> words, which can possibly have multiple meanings.
>
> I've created this page some time ago
> http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Mood_translation but I somehow lost interest
> (partly because I didn't make other people interested ;-) ). The page is a
> basic draft intended to create attention.

That's a good start. I'm not sure what would be most useful for
developers, but I'm happy to help by providing better definitions of the
moods and activities in XEP-0107 and XEP-0108. In fact I've been doing
some research on moods and activities, and we might update the lists in
those XEPs before long (some relatively common moods and activities are
missing).

Peter


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[Jonathan Schleifer]

Am 15.08.2008 um 14:07 schrieb Zenon Kuder jr.:

> Particularly the moods and activites should be
> a) consistent among different clients with same language
> b) consistent among different languages.
> to avoid social problems :-).

I really agree. Moods can be very different on translation, I noticed
that with our German translation of moods in Gajim.
b.) Is impossible, unfortunately.

> I've created this page some time ago
> http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Mood_translation but I somehow lost
> interest
> (partly because I didn't make other people interested ;-) ). The
> page is a
> basic draft intended to create attention.

I will add our German mood translations from Gajim there and encourage
the translators to do the same. Do you know of any other client that
has translated moods?

--
Jonathan


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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Jonathan Schleifer wrote:
> Am 15.08.2008 um 14:07 schrieb Zenon Kuder jr.:
>
>> Particularly the moods and activites should be
>> a) consistent among different clients with same language
>> b) consistent among different languages.
>> to avoid social problems :-).
>
> I really agree. Moods can be very different on translation, I noticed
> that with our German translation of moods in Gajim.
> b.) Is impossible, unfortunately.

I agree that it's impossible to avoid social problems. I even assert
that's impossible in the same language community. :)

>> I've created this page some time ago
>> http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Mood_translation but I somehow lost
>> interest
>> (partly because I didn't make other people interested ;-) ). The
>> page is a
>> basic draft intended to create attention.
>
> I will add our German mood translations from Gajim there and encourage
> the translators to do the same. Do you know of any other client that
> has translated moods?

No, I don't.

A long time ago we had a translators (AT) jabber (DOT) org ML I think, and I'd be
happy to set that up again if it would be helpful. Or lists for
particular languages (deutsch (AT) jabber (DOT) org etc.).

Peter


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[Jonathan Schleifer]

Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im> wrote:

> No, I don't.

We should talk about mood translations then. We could use Gajim's
current mood translations as a starting point (the German translation
is quite good actually - I myself fixed the translation there, as some
were translated very wrong. Took me some time to figure out how to best
translate some of them. Sure the hardest thing to translate.)

> A long time ago we had a translators (AT) jabber (DOT) org ML I think, and I'd
> be happy to set that up again if it would be helpful. Or lists for
> particular languages (deutsch (AT) jabber (DOT) org etc.).

For every language would be too much!

--
Jonathan

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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Jonathan Schleifer wrote:
> Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im> wrote:
>
>> No, I don't.
>
> We should talk about mood translations then. We could use Gajim's
> current mood translations as a starting point (the German translation
> is quite good actually - I myself fixed the translation there, as some
> were translated very wrong. Took me some time to figure out how to best
> translate some of them. Sure the hardest thing to translate.)
>
>> A long time ago we had a translators (AT) jabber (DOT) org ML I think, and I'd
>> be happy to set that up again if it would be helpful. Or lists for
>> particular languages (deutsch (AT) jabber (DOT) org etc.).
>
> For every language would be too much!

http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/translators

/psa


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[Sander Devrieze]

2008/8/15 Jonathan Schleifer <js-jdev (AT) webkeks (DOT) org>:
> I will add our German mood translations from Gajim there and encourage
> the translators to do the same. Do you know of any other client that
> has translated moods?

The first official release of Coccinella with User Mood support was
0.95.14 (October 2006). I'm not sure, but Coccinella must have been
one of the first clients with User Mood support. B-)

Anyway, we collected Mood translations for these languages so far (not
all languages are up to date; contributions are welcome! ;-) ):
* Czech
* German
* Spanish
* Italian
* Korean
* Dutch
* Polish
* Swedish

No Mood translations (and in general the most outdated translations):
* French
* Danish
* Russian

You can easily find the translations here:
http://coccinella.cvs.sourceforge.net/coccinella/coccinella/msgs/
(just click on the revision number of the translation and search for
"Mood")

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Jonathan Schleifer]

"Sander Devrieze" <s.devrieze (AT) pandora (DOT) be> wrote:

> Anyway, we collected Mood translations for these languages so far (not
> all languages are up to date; contributions are welcome! ;-) ):
> * Czech
> * German
> * Spanish
> * Italian
> * Korean
> * Dutch
> * Polish
> * Swedish

For german, there were only about 20% of the moods translated. Haven't
looked at the other languages. For Gajim, we have all moods translated
for German, French and Russian, maybe even know, but at least, I know
of these three.

I suggest we create a wiki page on wiki.jabber.org with proposed
translations. We could start with those from Gajim as they are very
complete.

--
Jonathan

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[Jonathan Schleifer]

Jonathan Schleifer <js-jdev (AT) webkeks (DOT) org> wrote:

> for German, French and Russian, maybe even know, but at least, I know

s/know/more/

--
Jonathan

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[Sander Devrieze]

2008/8/15 Jonathan Schleifer <js-jdev (AT) webkeks (DOT) org>:
> "Sander Devrieze" <s.devrieze (AT) pandora (DOT) be> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, we collected Mood translations for these languages so far (not
>> all languages are up to date; contributions are welcome! ;-) ):
>> * Czech
>> * German
>> * Spanish
>> * Italian
>> * Korean
>> * Dutch
>> * Polish
>> * Swedish
>
> For german, there were only about 20% of the moods translated. Haven't
> looked at the other languages. For Gajim, we have all moods translated
> for German, French and Russian, maybe even know, but at least, I know
> of these three.

It looks like Coccinella simply does not support all mood values (
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0107.html#moods ). I've no idea
what's the reason for that. Mats?

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Jonathan Dickinson]

How about some central XML file? A front-end for the XML file could be built to allow translators to go in and add their stuff. This way we could _realistically_ start making use of the xml:lang attribute on the stream. E.g.

<messages>
<errors>
<resource-not-found>
<neutral>
The resource '{0}' was not found.
</neutral>
<en-us>
The resource '{0}' was not found.
</en-us>
<en-speare>
Thine '{0}' resource found was not.
</en-speare>
</resource-not-found>
</errors>
</messages>

If we did some fancy namespacing we could even make some really kick-ass design patterns, for instance:

<messages xmlns:client="jabber:client">
<errors>
<client:resource-not-found/>
</errors>
</messages>

We could then do a lookup for certain namespaces:names and maybe build it into our XML writers...

-----Original Message-----
From: jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org [mailto:jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org] On Behalf Of Sander Devrieze
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:44 PM
To: Jabber/XMPP software development list
Cc: Mats Bengtsson
Subject: Re: [jdev] jabber localization project?

2008/8/15 Jonathan Schleifer <js-jdev (AT) webkeks (DOT) org>:
> "Sander Devrieze" <s.devrieze (AT) pandora (DOT) be> wrote:
>
>> Anyway, we collected Mood translations for these languages so far (not
>> all languages are up to date; contributions are welcome! ;-) ):
>> * Czech
>> * German
>> * Spanish
>> * Italian
>> * Korean
>> * Dutch
>> * Polish
>> * Swedish
>
> For german, there were only about 20% of the moods translated. Haven't
> looked at the other languages. For Gajim, we have all moods translated
> for German, French and Russian, maybe even know, but at least, I know
> of these three.

It looks like Coccinella simply does not support all mood values (
http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0107.html#moods ). I've no idea
what's the reason for that. Mats?

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Yeah, something like that. :)

Jonathan Dickinson wrote:
> How about some central XML file? A front-end for the XML file could be built to allow translators to go in and add their stuff. This way we could _realistically_ start making use of the xml:lang attribute on the stream. E.g.
>
> <messages>
> <errors>
> <resource-not-found>
> <neutral>
> The resource '{0}' was not found.
> </neutral>
> <en-us>
> The resource '{0}' was not found.
> </en-us>
> <en-speare>
> Thine '{0}' resource found was not.
> </en-speare>
> </resource-not-found>
> </errors>
> </messages>
>
> If we did some fancy namespacing we could even make some really kick-ass design patterns, for instance:
>
> <messages xmlns:client="jabber:client">
> <errors>
> <client:resource-not-found/>
> </errors>
> </messages>
>
> We could then do a lookup for certain namespaces:names and maybe build it into our XML writers...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org [mailto:jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org] On Behalf Of Sander Devrieze
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:44 PM
> To: Jabber/XMPP software development list
> Cc: Mats Bengtsson
> Subject: Re: [jdev] jabber localization project?
>
> 2008/8/15 Jonathan Schleifer <js-jdev (AT) webkeks (DOT) org>:
>> "Sander Devrieze" <s.devrieze (AT) pandora (DOT) be> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, we collected Mood translations for these languages so far (not
>>> all languages are up to date; contributions are welcome! ;-) ):
>>> * Czech
>>> * German
>>> * Spanish
>>> * Italian
>>> * Korean
>>> * Dutch
>>> * Polish
>>> * Swedish
>> For german, there were only about 20% of the moods translated. Haven't
>> looked at the other languages. For Gajim, we have all moods translated
>> for German, French and Russian, maybe even know, but at least, I know
>> of these three.
>
> It looks like Coccinella simply does not support all mood values (
> http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0107.html#moods ). I've no idea
> what's the reason for that. Mats?
>
> --
> Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[naw]

El Viernes 15 Agosto 2008, Jonathan Schleifer escribió:
> > I've created this page some time ago
> > http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Mood_translation but I somehow lost
> > interest
> > (partly because I didn't make other people interested ;-) ). The
> > page is a
> > basic draft intended to create attention.
>
> I will add our German mood translations from Gajim there and encourage
> the translators to do the same. Do you know of any other client that
> has translated moods?
>

Psi has translated them too, at least to spanish.
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[Lastwebpage]

I haven't compare it with the Gajim,
but here is the german translation for Miranda IM:
Activity (http://miranda-im.de/mediawiki/index.php?title=Sprachdatei:Core#Activity)
Moods (http://miranda-im.de/mediawiki/index.php?title=Sprachdatei:Core#Moods.2C_ICQ_XSta tus)

comments:
-developer have changed upper/lowercase for some entries, therefore two translations
-miranda start with the first word to translate and translate ALL words with this entry, therefore "Inactive" is not translated because it have a different meaning for most of the other plugins.
-be not surprised that this translation is below core, not jabber, but some translations are the same for ICQ xStatus.

Peter

[Jonathan Dickinson]

The real challenge would be the licensing. Public domain on CC?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org [mailto:jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org] On
> Behalf Of Lastwebpage
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:22 PM
> To: jdev (AT) jabber (DOT) org
> Subject: Re: [jdev] jabber localization project?
>
>
> I haven't compare it with the Gajim,
> but here is the german translation for Miranda IM:
> 'Activity' (http://tinyurl.com/5wgfrn)
> 'Moods' (http://tinyurl.com/5wgfrn)
>
> comments:
> -developer have changed upper/lowercase for some entries, therefore two
> translations
> -miranda start with the first word to translate and translate ALL words
> with this entry, therefore "Inactive" is not translated because it have
> a different meaning for most of the other plugins.
> -be not surprised that this translation is below -core-, not -jabber-,
> but some translations are the same for ICQ xStatus.
>
> Peter
>
>
> --
> Lastwebpage
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> Lastwebpage's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=41
> View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=272
>
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Jonathan Dickinson wrote:
> The real challenge would be the licensing. Public domain on CC?

That depends on who starts the project. If I started the project, I'd
choose public domain. But I may not have time to start the project
before someone else does. :)

/psa


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[Lastwebpage]

my two cents...
I am not an expert in this license things,
but I know that some license influence the source, the work and the destination.
Let's assume this localization project use license A, but the client use license B. there must not any license violations between A and B.
I have no idea if all license allow this.

Peter

[Peter Saint-Andre]

Lastwebpage wrote:
> my two cents...
> I am not an expert in this license things,
> but I know that some license influence the source, the work and the
> destination.
> Let's assume this localization project use license A, but the client
> use license B. there must not any license violations between A and B.
> I have no idea if all license allow this.

If it's in the public domain, anyone can use it for any reason with any
license (the public domain is not viral). Another possibility is the MIT
License or a BSD-style license. Those are as open as possible without
being public domain.

/psa


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[Jonathan Dickinson]

You can probably get away with most licenses by seeing the file as opaque and loading it at boot up. I.e. You don't copy and paste a single thing from it, rather you read it and fill internal tables and whatnot.

But I would _really_ like to do client lookups via a .Net resx file, and I am sure that other people have their preferences.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org [mailto:jdev-bounces (AT) jabber (DOT) org] On
> Behalf Of Lastwebpage
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 5:43 PM
> To: jdev (AT) jabber (DOT) org
> Subject: Re: [jdev] jabber localization project?
>
>
> my two cents...
> I am not an expert in this license things,
> but I know that some license influence the source, the work and the
> destination.
> Let's assume this localization project use license A, but the client
> use license B. there must not any license violations between A and B.
> I have no idea if all license allow this.
>
> Peter
>
>
> --
> Lastwebpage
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> Lastwebpage's Profile: http://www.jabberforum.org/member.php?userid=41
> View this thread: http://www.jabberforum.org/showthread.php?t=272
>
> _______________________________________________
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[Sander Devrieze]

2008/8/20 Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im>:
> Lastwebpage wrote:
>>
>> my two cents...
>> I am not an expert in this license things,
>> but I know that some license influence the source, the work and the
>> destination.
>> Let's assume this localization project use license A, but the client
>> use license B. there must not any license violations between A and B.
>> I have no idea if all license allow this.
>
> If it's in the public domain, anyone can use it for any reason with any
> license (the public domain is not viral). Another possibility is the MIT
> License or a BSD-style license. Those are as open as possible without being
> public domain.

Why not simply setting up some kind of a dictionary system? There is
nothing illegal about copying a translation found in a dictionary...

--
Mvg, Sander Devrieze.
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Sander Devrieze wrote:
> 2008/8/20 Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im>:
>> Lastwebpage wrote:
>>> my two cents...
>>> I am not an expert in this license things,
>>> but I know that some license influence the source, the work and the
>>> destination.
>>> Let's assume this localization project use license A, but the client
>>> use license B. there must not any license violations between A and B.
>>> I have no idea if all license allow this.
>> If it's in the public domain, anyone can use it for any reason with any
>> license (the public domain is not viral). Another possibility is the MIT
>> License or a BSD-style license. Those are as open as possible without being
>> public domain.
>
> Why not simply setting up some kind of a dictionary system? There is
> nothing illegal about copying a translation found in a dictionary...

We have two things:

1. Definitions of all these terms. For that we might be able to borrow
from ninjawords, thefreedictionary.com (their terms of use look too
restrictive to me), or wiktionary, for example:

http://ninjawords.com/happy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/happy

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/happy

2. Our recommended translations of those English terms into other languages.

/psa

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