[jdev] XSF membership application period

[Alexander Gnauck]

The XMPP Standards Foundation (XSF) is currently holding its quarterly
membership application period:

http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Membership_Applications_July_2008

Applications are encouraged from developers and others who are actively
involved in the Jabber/XMPP community. To apply, create a page about
yourself on the wiki.

If you don't have a wiki account, send your name, preferred nickname and
email address to one of the Sysops:
http://wiki.jabber.org/index.php/Sysops

The application period ends on 15th July 2008 23:59h UTC, so apply today!

Thanks.

Alex


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[Jehan]

Hello,

I have asked a wiki account for this. But before going further, I wanted to be sure about all what was implying such application. I am really interested in XMPP and would really like to participate in it. Moreover I think I have some spare time for this.

Yet I want to be sure of all the implications of being a member. So at the end what does it mean? What do this membership requires from us? I don't see so much information about the internal organisation of XSF (but maybe I am not looking on the right places too).
Thanks. :-)

Jehan

[Sylvain Hellegouarch]

>
> Hello,
>
> I have asked a wiki account for this. But before going further, I
> wanted to be sure about all what was implying such application. I am
> really interested in XMPP and would really like to participate in it.
> Moreover I think I have some spare time for this.
>
> Yet I want to be sure of all the implications of being a member. So at
> the end what does it mean? What do this membership requires from us? I
> don't see so much information about the internal organisation of XSF
> (but maybe I am not looking on the right places too).
> Thanks. :-)

I second the question :)

- Sylvain

--
Sylvain Hellegouarch
http://www.defuze.org
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[Kevin Smith]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 3:23 PM, Sylvain Hellegouarch <sh (AT) defuze (DOT) org> wrote:
>> Yet I want to be sure of all the implications of being a member. So at
>> the end what does it mean? What do this membership requires from us?

It is required that members you vote (responsibly) in XSF meetings.
These are primarily voting in new members quarterly, and voting board
and council annually.

It is expected that members contribute to the larger community, e.g.
developing code, contributing to discussion, submitting XEP proposals,
commenting on XEPs.

/K
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[Jehan]

It is required that members you vote (responsibly) in XSF meetings.
These are primarily voting in new members quarterly, and voting board
and council annually.


So you are accepted to have the opportunity to accept others (as member also, or board, or council)? ;-) I guess also we participate in discussion about XEP status?..

And an important question about how the meetings, and votes (when necessary) are done: how are organized the meetings? Are there votes during meetings at a narrow specific time, or is there a large time range around the discussions? As I said, I have some time I could use for this. But I still have a job during the day and there is the time shift between countries (but maybe with the time shift, I can participate to mettings at night! :p).

Of course I could just wait and see if I am accepted as a member (I hope!), but I still think it would be stupid to take responsibility of membership if I suddenly discover some physical impossibilities (like time of the day, etc.).

Thanks! :-)

Jehan

[Peter Saint-Andre]

JabberForum wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have asked a wiki account for this. But before going further, I
> wanted to be sure about all what was implying such application. I am
> really interested in XMPP and would really like to participate in it.
> Moreover I think I have some spare time for this.
>
> Yet I want to be sure of all the implications of being a member. So at
> the end what does it mean? What do this membership requires from us? I
> don't see so much information about the internal organisation of XSF
> (but maybe I am not looking on the right places too).
> Thanks. :-)

The "responsibilities" of XSF members are described here:

http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/members/responsibilities.shtml

XSF members don't really do much. :) They need to vote 5 times a year
(four times a year on whether to accept new members, once a year on the
composition of the XMPP Council and the XSF Board of Directors). Plus
you need to be an XSF member in order to be on the XMPP Council.

The basic idea is that XSF needs members in order to provide a legal
structure for its standardization activities -- it is a membership
organization in which the individual members are elected based on merit,
and those meritorious individuals in turn elect the board and council.
The IETF does something similar but in a more complicated way (IMHO).
Many other standards organizations have member *companies* and require
large payments from those companies (W3C, OASIS, OMA, etc.), but you can
contribute to their standards process only if you work for one of those
companies. Although the XSF has sponsoring companies, they don't have
any special status, and XSF membership is *individual*, not corporate.
The XSF prefers to work completely in the open, so we don't require any
payments in order to participate. However, that means we don't have
fancy meetings in Hawaii and Barcelona (etc.) like other standards
groups do, instead we just hold our small "XMPP Summit" meetings at
FOSDEM and OSCON every year. ;-) Thus we do almost all of our work via
email lists and groupchat rooms, which are pretty cheap to host.

HTH,

Peter


Peter

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[Remko Tronçon]

> So you are accepted to have the opportunity to accept others (as member
> also, or board, or council)? ;-) I guess also we participate in
> discussion about XEP status?..

As Kev said, yes, you have to participate in the community actively
(which includes discussions about XEPs). 'Participating actively' is
pretty vague, though, and the only well-defined task is the voting
part, which is probably why Kev mentioned it first. (And as simple as
this task may seem, it seems that some members still fail to take it
seriously)

When members need to vote, there is always a time span, and the last
moment to vote is the members meeting (which typically happens around
1900 CET). However, you if you vote during the time span, there is no
need for you to physically attend the meeting.

cheers,
Remko
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[Peter Saint-Andre]

JabberForum wrote:
> Kevin Smith;1425 Wrote:
>> It is required that members you vote (responsibly) in XSF meetings.
>> These are primarily voting in new members quarterly, and voting board
>> and council annually.
>>
>
> So you are accepted to have the opportunity to accept others (as member
> also, or board, or council)? ;-) I guess also we participate in
> discussion about XEP status?..

See my other email.

> And an important question about how the meetings, and votes (when
> necessary) are done: how are organized the meetings? Are there votes
> during meetings at a narrow specific time, or is there a large time
> range around the discussions? As I said, I have some time I could use
> for this. But I still have a job during the day and there is the time
> shift between countries (but maybe with the time shift, I can
> participate to mettings at night! :p).

Most XSF members vote by proxy, which they do by chatting with an IM bot
we host at jabber.org. If you really want to participate in the meeting
(which happens via groupchat) you can do that, but most members don't
bother because it's not necessary.

Peter

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[Peter Saint-Andre]

Remko Tronçon wrote:
>> I guess also we participate in
>> discussion about XEP status?..

No, we tried that and it was confusing (once upon a time XSF members
voted on whether to issue Last Calls, but then the technical discussions
happened on the members (AT) xmpp (DOT) org, which is open only to elected members,
not the general public). So all XEP-related discussion happens on the
standards (AT) xmpp (DOT) org list now, which is completely open. The members list
is in fact very quiet. :)

> As Kev said, yes, you have to participate in the community actively
> (which includes discussions about XEPs). 'Participating actively' is
> pretty vague, though, and the only well-defined task is the voting
> part, which is probably why Kev mentioned it first. (And as simple as
> this task may seem, it seems that some members still fail to take it
> seriously)
>
> When members need to vote, there is always a time span, and the last
> moment to vote is the members meeting (which typically happens around
> 1900 CET). However, you if you vote during the time span, there is no
> need for you to physically attend the meeting.

Right, usually you have 2 or 3 weeks to vote via the bot.

Peter
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[Tobias Markmann]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im>
wrote:

> ...
> The XSF prefers to work completely in the open, so we don't require any
> payments in order to participate. However, that means we don't have
> fancy meetings in Hawaii and Barcelona (etc.) like other standards
> groups do, instead we just hold our small "XMPP Summit" meetings at
> FOSDEM and OSCON every year.
> ...
> HTH,
>
> Peter
>
>
> Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
>

Yeah. Meeting on Hawaii would be nice. :)

Cheers,
Tobias

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[Jehan]

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter (AT) stpeter (DOT) im>
wrote:

> ...
> The XSF prefers to work completely in the open, so we don't require any
> payments in order to participate. However, that means we don't have
> fancy meetings in Hawaii and Barcelona (etc.) like other standards
> groups do, instead we just hold our small "XMPP Summit" meetings at
> FOSDEM and OSCON every year.
> ...
> HTH,
>
> Peter
>

Yeah. Meeting on Hawaii would be nice. :)

Cheers,
Tobias


What we have meetings in Hawai this year!? I will sure applicate and hope to be admitted! :p

[Peter Saint-Andre]

Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> JabberForum wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have asked a wiki account for this. But before going further, I
>> wanted to be sure about all what was implying such application. I am
>> really interested in XMPP and would really like to participate in it.
>> Moreover I think I have some spare time for this.
>>
>> Yet I want to be sure of all the implications of being a member. So at
>> the end what does it mean? What do this membership requires from us? I
>> don't see so much information about the internal organisation of XSF
>> (but maybe I am not looking on the right places too).
>> Thanks. :-)
>
> The "responsibilities" of XSF members are described here:
>
> http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/members/responsibilities.shtml
>
> XSF members don't really do much. :) They need to vote 5 times a year
> (four times a year on whether to accept new members, once a year on the
> composition of the XMPP Council and the XSF Board of Directors). Plus
> you need to be an XSF member in order to be on the XMPP Council.
>
> The basic idea is that XSF needs members in order to provide a legal
> structure for its standardization activities -- it is a membership
> organization in which the individual members are elected based on merit,
> and those meritorious individuals in turn elect the board and council.
> The IETF does something similar but in a more complicated way (IMHO).
> Many other standards organizations have member *companies* and require
> large payments from those companies (W3C, OASIS, OMA, etc.), but you can
> contribute to their standards process only if you work for one of those
> companies. Although the XSF has sponsoring companies, they don't have
> any special status, and XSF membership is *individual*, not corporate.
> The XSF prefers to work completely in the open, so we don't require any
> payments in order to participate. However, that means we don't have
> fancy meetings in Hawaii and Barcelona (etc.) like other standards
> groups do, instead we just hold our small "XMPP Summit" meetings at
> FOSDEM and OSCON every year. ;-) Thus we do almost all of our work via
> email lists and groupchat rooms, which are pretty cheap to host.

BTW I updated the following pages to reflect this thread:

http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/members/

http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/members/responsibilities.shtml

I hope that makes things clearer.

/psa


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[Alexander Gnauck]

> BTW I updated the following pages to reflect this thread:
>
> http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/members/
>
> http://www.xmpp.org/xsf/members/responsibilities.shtml
>
> I hope that makes things clearer.

thanks Peter

as Peter said the online voting period which we call proxy voting is
normally enabled 14-21 days. I try to stay close to 14 days, but
depending on the date we will find for our official online meeting the
duration can be a bit longer, up to 21 weeks.

Alex

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[Alexander Gnauck]

> as Peter said the online voting period which we call proxy voting is
> normally enabled 14-21 days. I try to stay close to 14 days, but
> depending on the date we will find for our official online meeting the
> duration can be a bit longer, up to 21 weeks.

sorry, days, not weeks ;-)

Alex

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[Jehan]

So let me make a summary of being a XSF membership: we have meetings in Hawai and for each meeting, we have 21 weeks to think about our vote (so 21 weeks in Hawai).

Pretty cool assignement.

Jehan